Full-time yurt living in Sweden

[andreasmh]

Hi all,

Thank you for letting me join this forum.

I am aware of a post with a question about living in a yurt, however, I do not think it answers my specific question: https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=143003.0

I’m a guy from Denmark thinking about buying a plot of land in Sweden and hopefully build and/or erect a yurt to live there full-time in nature, which would be a nice foundation to do bushcraft projects. There has not previously been build anything on the land that I’m thinking about buying. I haven't decided the size of the yurt yet, but it could be larger than 25 m2.

What I do know is that’s allowed to build an annex (attefall) up to 25 m2 if there’s already a main building, which the municipality told m:

"Det krävs bygglov för att uppföra en byggnad som ställs upp mer än en normal semesterperiod, dvs. fyra veckor. Enligt PBL 9 kap 2§ (2010:900).

En Attefall kan endast uppföras om det redan står ett en- eller ett tvåbostadshus.*Ett attefallshus är en bygglovsbefriad komplementbyggnad eller komplementbostadshus som får vara max 25 m2. Enligt 9 kap 4 § PBL. Även vid bygglovsbefriade åtgärder kan en anmälan krävas vid installationer av VA, ventilation, eldstad. Enligt 6 kap 5 § PBF (2011:338)."

My question is if there are any legal alternative ways to live in a yurt full-time on a privately owned land if the yurt is indeed the main or only “building” there? My concern is that since the yurt is not well insulated I would think it does not live up the standards of a regular house. But my knowledge is extremely limited in this area so hopefully I can expand it by learning from you guys.

Also, if you know other Swedish forums about alternative ways of living in nature that you think could be relevant to check out, please let me know.

Many thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Andreas

[karsan]

A traditional yurt like the people in Mongolia used to have, is made of thick felt and has a rather flat roof.  Good in the dry Mongolia climate.  Not good in Sweden, with very wet  autumns and winters, sometimes wiith wet, heavy snowfall.  If you want an indigenous  kind of dwelling, find out how the Sami people lived.

[skogaliten]

Mayby a log cabin is a more apropriate, and traditional building for swedish climate, than a yurt?

These have been used for at least 2000 years.

Log cabins are very possible to build yourself, if they are small (upp to 15-20 m square), in that size they may be classified as "komplementbyggnad"/attefallshus or friggebod.

[Vasa]

Hello,

First of all congratulations on your new adventure! really a way to go!

On your behalf I tried to find out some informations about yurts and it seems like yurt falls under the category of either tent or "Friggebod" as long as the yurt is maximum 15sqm. Many of authorities seems to have a poor knowledge about yurts when it comes to the legal aspects. So if you own your property you might could have a yurt on it and live in it without any legal prohibition whatsoever but there are some possibilities from the authorities side that if the land you own is inside the local planning zone "Detalj planerad område" to approach the matter from other perspectives to make demands against your lifestyle, if they ever care about it and have the time to spend on such a case, besides against a Dane.

However this is my suggestion to avoid almost all types of possible Swedish legal issues against one's alternative lifestyle: buy a land outside the "detalj planerad område" if it is possible with an old run down decrepit house on it which the property for sale almost only for the land value. There are plenty of that kind of properties around Sweden.   

All the very best! and here are some inspirations: 

https://www.unt.se/nyheter/uppsala/han-foljde-sitt-hjarta-och-bor-i-en-hydda-4800502.aspx

https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=189057.0

[andreasmh]

A traditional yurt like the people in Mongolia used to have, is made of thick felt and has a rather flat roof.  Good in the dry Mongolia climate.  Not good in Sweden, with very wet  autumns and winters, sometimes wiith wet, heavy snowfall.  If you want an indigenous  kind of dwelling, find out how the Sami people lived.

That's a good point. I'll look into how the Sami people lived - I guess they used lavvu instead of yurts.
Otherwise, a regular Swedish hut may be the way to go.

[andreasmh]

Mayby a log cabin is a more apropriate, and traditional building for swedish climate, than a yurt?

These have been used for at least 2000 years.

Log cabins are very possible to build yourself, if they are small (upp to 15-20 m square), in that size they may be classified as "komplementbyggnad"/attefallshus or friggebod.

Exactly, I think you're right - and it's affordable too

[andreasmh]

Hello,

First of all congratulations on your new adventure! really a way to go!

On your behalf I tried to find out some informations about yurts and it seems like yurt falls under the category of either tent or "Friggebod" as long as the yurt is maximum 15sqm. Many of authorities seems to have a poor knowledge about yurts when it comes to the legal aspects. So if you own your property you might could have a yurt on it and live in it without any legal prohibition whatsoever but there are some possibilities from the authorities side that if the land you own is inside the local planning zone "Detalj planerad område" to approach the matter from other perspectives to make demands against your lifestyle, if they ever care about it and have the time to spend on such a case, besides against a Dane.

However this is my suggestion to avoid almost all types of possible Swedish legal issues against one's alternative lifestyle: buy a land outside the "detalj planerad område" if it is possible with an old run down decrepit house on it which the property for sale almost only for the land value. There are plenty of that kind of properties around Sweden.   

All the very best! and here are some inspirations: 

https://www.unt.se/nyheter/uppsala/han-foljde-sitt-hjarta-och-bor-i-en-hydda-4800502.aspx

https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=189057.0

Thank you, and thanks for the advice on what to go for as far as finding the right kind of land. Also, thanks for the links! Now I'm one step closer to finding out what I need

[Vasa]

Nothing to thank me for anyway since you understood my point very easily, these are the bureaucratic facts you should look for.

In the title deed this information must be stated "Småhusenhet, helårsbostad för 1-2 familjer" and the right type code "typkod or taxeringskod". Since they have changed type code system in year 2015 you better study about "typkod" little bit to get an understanding about it so you know it for sure when you check the typkod of a property, following links would be more than enough for that study,

https://www.skatteverket.se/foretagochorganisationer/skatter/fastighet/fastighetstaxering/typkoder.4.3f4496fd14864cc5ac9126d.html

https://www.skatteverket.se/privat/fastigheterochbostad/fastighetstaxering/typkoder/typkoderforsmahus.4.46ae6b26141980f1e2d3a0a.html

As i said earlier condition of the house on the property has no meaning at all for you but that the title deed says that there is an existing house on the property does. At last when you have decided on a property contact technical services department "tekniska förvaltningen" in that particular municipality "kommun" and make a query about if there are any legal claims from the kommun for that particular property before you buy it. Why I emphasise on that matter sometimes there are existing legal claims on properties to fix drainage system and so on. You just go to the kommun website and find contact info about tekniska förvaltningen.

To check a title deed before you buy it you go to this authority https://www.lantmateriet.se/en/real-property/Fastighetsinformation/bestall-fastighetsinformation/

If you buy through a real estate agent he/she will help you with everything but if you buy by your own from for instance blocket.se you need to know what I mentioned above. The best place to buy cheap real estate with total security without knowing anything at all is from here https://www.kronofogden.se/Auctionsite_en.html 

To know more about yurts in Sweden and to find out a yurt community in Sweden supposedly these people behind this yurt manufacturing place may can help you more. All the best!

http://www.glada-hasten.se/70748923 
 

[olivia.k]

Why do you even consider living in a yurt in Sweden?

If you like living on poor conditions you can just buy a "fäbodstuga" for 100 000kr somewhere and live there on the same conditions as we did in Sweden around year 1700-1800, with no water, no electricity and no wood burning stove. I live in a "fäbodstuga" (logcabin) 2 months every year and if I had the choise I would rather live there during winter also than moving into a tent/yurt.

[skogaliten]

Why do you even consider living in a yurt in Sweden?

If you like living on poor conditions you can just buy a "fäbodstuga" for 100 000kr somewhere and live there on the same conditions as we did in Sweden around year 1700-1800, with no water, no electricity and no wood burning stove. I live in a "fäbodstuga" (logcabin) 2 months every year and if I had the choise I would rather live there during winter also than moving into a tent/yurt.

I agree with the above!

If yurts was a reasonable type of "building" for swedish climate, it would have been one of the traditional builiding types in this region.

But yurts (or other varitons of tents) are not/have not been used here for winter or long term living, because of climate reasons.

The winter buildings used by the Sami people, were mostly log and peat buildings, even if they used more "tent" like buildings in the summer, when following the herds of reindeer.

Here is some more information on the Sami buildings: https://hallahus.se/stilhistoria/samisk-byggnadskultur/nordsamisk-torvkata/

There are lots of fairly cheap properies for sale, that consists of a plot of land, and traditional bulidings (mostly log cabins, but i certain areas the buildings may be timber frame buildings, or even stone buildings) but without such things as running water or electricity for sale, especially in the remoter part of western an northern sweden.

[Vasa]

I understand why you two don't understand this thing call alternative lifestyle. I lived whole my life in cities, I travelled around some but always came back to the flat in the city, which ever the city I lived in that time, I lived in several cities in two countries.

But in my mind I always wanted to break that city yoke from my neck and to move out to the countryside. Thing is it is easier said than done. However I'm grateful that I finally could break that city yoke and settle down in my forest.

When I did that I didn't care about what kind of conditions I might would have to face or what the rest of us would say or think about my new lifestyle. I had a nice flat in a nice area with nice neighbors and nice things to do for leisure but I have never felt so happier in my entire life before, now when I live in my old decrepit off the grid log cabin from 1800s with all this poor conditions.

You may have access to such a place or you may have grew up in a such place or you may have friends who live in such places that you can visit them whenever you want, all that what an alternative lifestyle offers may has been a normal reality to you people since long time back. Because of that type of "poor" conditions had one way or the other been a normal realty to you, even though you still appreciate it you can't understand the real value of it anymore or you don't see those kind of lifestyles as something very tickling in someone's heart, that thing has become a first love of an old person, nothing about it is tickling anymore. That's not your fault at all but that's the nature of an human being. But the outcome from that becomes discouraging to others who love that kind of lifestyle, simply you put your negativity towards it, totally unintentionally.

This guy asked for some informations so all what we should do is provide him with the informations he has asked for. He is the one who is going to live in it and it's his life, he has a right to do whatever he wants to do with his life. This forum call alternativ.nu must be a reason for that. This is a place for people who break traditional yokes, people who find new paths, for pioneers of new alternative lifestyles.

For those who doubt about yurt living is not for Sweden ask this guy https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=190224.0 or the guy in the news paper article I published before, here is another female member https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=190841.0 Actually I saw a facebook post with images (I can't remember which group but "offgrid sverige" or "alternativ sverige" or something like that) from a Swedish young mother who live in a yurt with her toddler so obviously social services has accepted yurt living as not so "poor" after all.

However please don't misunderstand me I have no intention at all to criticise what you two was trying to point out, those were good points but that was not what opening poster Andreas asked for. He wants to live in a yurt in Sweden so let him do that and if you can help then help him and if you can't so please don't put any negativity on him, that's not alternative at all in alternativ.nu.                     

[olivia.k]

I am just interested in knowing why someone think living in a yurt is a better idea than buying a cheap log house to live in.

I would assume it is because it is chepaer to put up a tent on someone elses property than buying a property of your own, but since you say you will buy land I dont understand why you dont buy land with at house on it.

I realise that Andreas probably never have heard of "fäbodstuga", and how many of them that are on sale.

Here is some links to houses called fäbodstuga which is houses that were only used in the summer back then but you are allowed to live there during winter, and it is probably more comfortable than living i a mongolian tent during winter. Or do your own search on fäbodstuga on hemnet.

https://www.fastighetsbyran.com/sv/sverige/Objekt/?source=Hemnet&objektID=2180400

https://www.svenskfast.se/tomt/dalarna/vansbro/dala-jarna/rutan/gruvvallarna/245089

https://www.lansfast.se/hitta/fritidshus/dalarna/orsa/orsa/hoghed-5/cmfritidshus4tsiut8g3b4mrrdc/?from=Hemnet

[olivia.k]

I understand why you two don't understand this thing call alternative lifestyle.

Varför skulle jag inte förstå det? Jag bor alltså i en fäbodstuga på sommaren har har helt klart längre att gå och hämta vatten i en källa än den där som bor i ett tält på en gård tillsammans med 20 st andra vuxna, som du lade upp en länk till en artikel om. Många verkar bo så "alternativt" men när man synar det i sömmarna så är det kanske inte så äkta trots allt. Många har ju så vidlyftiga idéer också, men står inte ut någon längre stund. Enda anledningen till att bo i tält är väl egentligen att man tänker flytta stup i kvarten, typ som romer gjorde förr. Verkar ju inte gälla trådskaparen då som ska köpa mark för att sätta upp ett tält på. Tycker inte det låter särskilt genomtänkt alls.

[Sjaunja]

Andreasmh!
I love your idea and I cant imagine a more beautiful way to live than in a yurt. Here where I live, in Västerbotten there are people living in yurts. No problem at all. Building a yurt is also my plan some day. Welcome to Sweden by the way!

[Sjaunja]

.

[skogaliten]

I understand why you two don't understand this thing call alternative lifestyle. I lived whole my life in cities, I travelled around some but always came back to the flat in the city, which ever the city I lived in that time, I lived in several cities in two countries.

But in my mind I always wanted to break that city yoke from my neck and to move out to the countryside. Thing is it is easier said than done. However I'm grateful that I finally could break that city yoke and settle down in my forest.

When I did that I didn't care about what kind of conditions I might would have to face or what the rest of us would say or think about my new lifestyle. I had a nice flat in a nice area with nice neighbors and nice things to do for leisure but I have never felt so happier in my entire life before, now when I live in my old decrepit off the grid log cabin from 1800s with all this poor conditions.

You may have access to such a place or you may have grew up in a such place or you may have friends who live in such places that you can visit them whenever you want, all that what an alternative lifestyle offers may has been a normal reality to you people since long time back. Because of that type of "poor" conditions had one way or the other been a normal realty to you, even though you still appreciate it you can't understand the real value of it anymore or you don't see those kind of lifestyles as something very tickling in someone's heart, that thing has become a first love of an old person, nothing about it is tickling anymore. That's not your fault at all but that's the nature of an human being. But the outcome from that becomes discouraging to others who love that kind of lifestyle, simply you put your negativity towards it, totally unintentionally.

This guy asked for some informations so all what we should do is provide him with the informations he has asked for. He is the one who is going to live in it and it's his life, he has a right to do whatever he wants to do with his life. This forum call alternativ.nu must be a reason for that. This is a place for people who break traditional yokes, people who find new paths, for pioneers of new alternative lifestyles.

For those who doubt about yurt living is not for Sweden ask this guy https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=190224.0 or the guy in the news paper article I published before, here is another female member https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=190841.0 Actually I saw a facebook post with images (I can't remember which group but "offgrid sverige" or "alternativ sverige" or something like that) from a Swedish young mother who live in a yurt with her toddler so obviously social services has accepted yurt living as not so "poor" after all.

However please don't misunderstand me I have no intention at all to criticise what you two was trying to point out, those were good points but that was not what opening poster Andreas asked for. He wants to live in a yurt in Sweden so let him do that and if you can help then help him and if you can't so please don't put any negativity on him, that's not alternative at all in alternativ.nu.                     

In which way do you mean, that you are giving any arguments, that yurt living (as opposed to such house types as for example tiny houses, or logcabins) is i viable choice for full time, year round living in Sweden?

The only arguments you provide, is that whichever idea anyone has, you should never meet any arguments that oppose that idea?

To live in different way than the majority, is not what olivia.k. and I are arguing against. It is the idea that a mongolian type of tent, i suitable for swedish climate.

And by the way, those links you provided, are in no way links discussing the expirience of living in a yurt.
It is people discussion dreams of alternate lifestyles.

[Vasa]

First of all you should know how to distinguish an argument from making a point.

Andreas asked for yurt related information and you instead of provide him with the information he asked for, started to putting his idea down and rising your own replacing idea for his idea and kept insisting and bothering him on your own idea on his own thread. That's arguing. (by the way that also is off topic and breaking some other forum rules such as disrespect for fellow members ideas)

While I was respecting your log cabin idea and also having an understanding about what you were stating, also made my point why we should not put his idea down, rather help him to achieve his own goal if we can. That's making a point. I myself live in an over 200 year old log cabin year around I know how good that type of constructions have worked out for this type of climates.

When John Seymour stated that 5000 sqm of land would be enough to feed a whole family in that era, how many people like you had put his idea down? But he proved it to the world. So why would Andreas and the people Sjaunja has mentioned and the people you already have judged as dream talkers prove to the world even yurts can work out in Sweden?

Olivia was honest enough to realize that she is mortal and every mortal person is subject to make mistakes here and there, with or without good reasons. I don't think you are that dumb not to realize that fact, but all you are up to is to win this so called argument(according to you). If it makes you happy take the victory. Electricity is like coffee in the deep of Alaska for me so I don't want to spill it on nonsens.

By the way I have a feeling that you are too a very knowledgeable person but the problem is you are not aware of exactly how to share it with the rest of us without making any damage to us. Learn from a master Torbjörn. This is how he does. A. Background explanation of the matter. B. Direct answer to the question. C. What other options may exist. D. A comparison of all options include the answer to the poster. E. If there are any public well known examples he brings it up too. Then he leave. He serve a comprehensive buffet and leave it to readers to choose what to take or not to take. Never bothers anyone, never put someone else's idea down in other words never argue. Have a nice day!           

 



   

[olivia.k]

My question is if there are any legal alternative ways to live in a yurt full-time on a privately owned land if the yurt is indeed the main or only “building” there? My concern is that since the yurt is not well insulated I would think it does not live up the standards of a regular house. But my knowledge is extremely limited in this area so hopefully I can expand it by learning from you guys.

Nu har jag läst hela tråden och inser att ingen (?) ens har svarat på hans fråga. Är det pga att det står på engelska?
Han skriver ju att han hittat mark som han vill köpa men det finns inga byggnader alls där, och kan han då smälla upp ett tält och bo där permanent?
Mitt svar på det är att finns inga byggnader på fastigheten måste bygglov sökas. Man kan ju inte ställa upp attefallsbyggnader och friggebodar på fastigheter som inte har någon huvudbyggnad till att börja med.
Sen om det inte är ett riktigt hus spelar väl ingen roll. Har man inte indraget vatten i tältet slipper man ju ha godkänt avlopp osv.
Men bäst är väl att mejla kommunen i det området där fastigheten ligger och fråga där.